Graffitti disses WordPress
When you produce The WordPress Podcast and your GMail address is wordpresspodcast, Google tends to pick up on the keyword… it’d be pretty hard not to. Now it turns out someone is using the WordPress keyword not to pitch themes or plugins, not to promote their consulting business or installation tutorials, but instead to diss WordPress itself.
Telligent, the makers of the Graffiti CMS software they’re promoting here, has been buying the Google AdWord ‘WordPress’ to display messages like this within GMail:
Previously, they’d said, “Tired of WordPress? - graffiticms.com/wordpress - Want something easier to work with Free and commercial versions”
Clicking the link takes you to a page that claims the Graffitti CMS is easier and quicker to install than WordPress, takes a swipe at PHP and claims that somehow Microsoft’s .NET and IIS technology is better than *nix and PHP. Many of the features they claim to hold over WordPress were included long ago. The crux of their beef with WordPress seems to be in their claim that WordPress is blogware, not a content management system (CMS). Really? Tell that to C-NET, the New York Times, Ford and several others.
What they seem to be saying, without coming out and just saying it, is, “Open Source Software = bad, proprietary = good.” And that’s a valid subject open to debate, but don’t start slinging mud and then skirt the issue.
January 3rd, 2008 at 3:44 pm
[...] Graffitti disses WordPress, their landing page boasts a 2-minute install. Seems pretty aggressive for a product that’s only available for pre-purchase (at $199). « Misery, Happiness Comment » [...]
January 3rd, 2008 at 4:21 pm
The only interesting thing they mention that WordPress lacks is version control and change history. I figure if you want that, get a Wiki.
January 3rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Putting aside the problems I have with phrase ‘Web 2.0 Content Management’, this just looks to me like a way to draw potential customers through being mildly controversial. The problem is however, that I don’t think it’s going to do Graffitti more harm than good.
I’ve have only used WordPress for a few years, but have quite successfully bent it beyond all recognition to do all kinds of neat things. And best of all, I get to use it for free — I don’t have to pay anyone for all those cool features.
I have no problem with people selling whatever they need to sell — but frankly, if you don’t like WordPress, just don’t use it. Knocking a competitor (even if that competitor sells at $0) is just cheap, silly and generally in bad taste. You may have the best product in the world, but saying your competitor is crap just makes you look like a jerk. Graffitti’s probably alienating more customers with this ad than attracting them.
Not only is this a puerile marketing tactic, it’s also ineffective.
January 3rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Oh good catch sir!
Stumbled this post!
January 3rd, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Hello folks, greetings from “the dark side”!
I’ve never tried WordPress but at first glance it appears to be fond of MySQL and PHP, both of which make my stomach turn.
Are you suggesting that I should migrate across to an unfamiliar platform in deference to using a solution which runs on my favoured “stack” of Windows, SQL Server, and ASP.NET? Or are you just taking issue with their advertising message? I’m not being facetious or rhetorical, I’m genuinely curious.
Personally speaking, I have found this early beta release of Graffiti to be an excellent CMS platform and more than adequate for my requirements of a personal blogging platform on the MS stack.
Best wishes,
Ian
January 3rd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
[...] Charles Stricklin has published an article today that shows off Grafiti essentially slamming WordPress. According to Charles, Telligent has purchased the keyword WordPressPodcast from Google Adwords. Upon clicking on the promotional landing page, you discover that the Grafiti CMS is THE alternative for WordPress. Telligent claims that Grafiti has a 2 minute install time when compared with the 5 minute install time for WordPress. Some notable differences between the two: Grafiti is based on Microsoft.NET and IIS technology and costs $199.00 which by the way, is a limited time price, so who knows what the final price may end up being. [...]
January 3rd, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Ian,
I object to the advertising. It’s one thing to say what you just said, that you prefer IIS, MSSQL and ASP.NET. If Graffiti melts yer butter, more power to ya! But this juvenile taunting is silly and doesn’t reflect well on the company nor product.
My opinion, and I’m entitled to it.
January 3rd, 2008 at 6:39 pm
[...] claims it is an alternative to WordPress. Charles Stricklin mentioned it his blog. So did Matt. The question is, Is GraffitiCMS really better than WordPress? Let’s take a [...]
January 3rd, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Ok, this is worth a LoLness!!! Who’s tired of WordPress? I mean in all honesty I’ve never met anyone who moved to WordPress that has ever gone back to their old system. I used to use PHP-Nuke and loved it for a long time… Also tried Joomla, both are decent. When compared to WordPress however there’s nothing that compares in my opinion. I agree with you, I don’t think this is going to help grow any sort of customer base though. They’re shooting themselves in the foot if you ask me… I’d never use it even if they weren’t being a retarded company though because I would never make the switch off of a Linux Server.
January 3rd, 2008 at 8:24 pm
[...] for a share of the Web 2.0 pie. Reaction by the WordPress faithful can be seen in posts by Charles Stricklin and Photo [...]
January 3rd, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Someone from the Wordpress organization needs to file a Trademark complaint with Google.
Google has been implementing a de facto policy of removing ads that use Trademarks in this manner (see: anti-MoveOn.org ads during the “General BetrayUs” fiasco, which Google pulled at MoveOn’s request, for supposed trademark violation).
More importantly, why on earth would someone pay $200 for a Wordpress-wannabe, when Wordpress is free (and, I would bet, every bit as easy to use)?
January 3rd, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Purchasing links for irrelevant keywords in order to game search results?
Google should drop its own page rank. Tsk!
January 3rd, 2008 at 9:07 pm
It’s not about what platform you prefer to use (I’d rather slit my wrists than use IIS, ASP.NET, or SQL Server, for example), but about your approach to how to sell your product. The majority or websites on the ‘net today run on Linux boxes, usually running PHP and MySQL (or some other database solution and scripting methodology running on a *nix box of some sort), so to dismiss that vast amount of installed user bases and developers so simply and simply to state that one solution is better than another is to miss the whole point entirely.
Dissing your competition is not particularly professional, no matter who does it. Sell your product on its merits, if it has any. Having to resorting to mud-slinging just makes serious users, many of whom know better and can see through those sorts of fibs, simply ignore you.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:19 pm
You think they’re the first ones to ever adwords of their competitors? You think they’re the first ones to compare a product to WordPress? The page you link to look more like a comparison than “dissing”. It is marketing, not someone out to demerit WordPress.
Not saying their superior or not, but what ever happened to “competition creates innovation” or “free enterprise”?
Finally, dislike Windows or not, if you look at their blog, it will run on Mono so its fully compatible with Linux and works with MySQL. So it isn’t like it is trying to convert people away from Linux or anything.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 pm
PS, their docs site (http://docs.graffiticms.com/) looks like it is running on Graffiti as well, and it is structured like a FAQ/KB site. Can WordPress do that? According to the rest of their site, it is more than just a blogging app.
January 3rd, 2008 at 10:44 pm
For a bunch touting Windows based dev over LAMP architecture, they sure are keen to copy their website’s nav and footer design cues from Apple. Fanboys unite!
IIS eats it, too.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:26 pm
[...] Charles Stricklin » Blog Archive » Graffitti disses WordPress this is a fight i would not have picked were i Graffitti. as Jonathan says, you can compete with a company, but competing with a social movement is another story altogether. (tags: opensource wordpress graffitti cms) [...]
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 pm
[...] Blogging software out there. If you want a example of CMS Software then checkout Joomla or Drupal I fail to see what all the brouhaha is about. So we have a small time competing product built on Microsoft technology marketing itself as better [...]
January 4th, 2008 at 1:11 am
I’m not that concerned about the use of Wordpress’ name in the AdSense lookup — that happens all the time.
What bugs me is they have “Wordpress” as the first word in the title tag, clearly trying to move up the GoogleJuice.
That’s cheap.
January 4th, 2008 at 2:13 am
[...] source [...]
January 4th, 2008 at 2:59 am
Josh, having read the article I don’t think the intent was to claim that PHP/MySQL was any better than .net/SQL Server. It is simply how they chose to advertise their solution that was being criticized here. It seems that we are to realize that WordPress is simply the morally better choice. If Graffiti stuck to straight, objective comparisons without the editorial content (specifically, their Google ads), no problem. Graffiti is clearly a more robust solution out-of-the-box. It doesn’t seem to do anything WP can’t do without a few well chosen plugins and a little template customizing, but for people who don’t want to mess with it (and who already have .net setup somewhere), maybe Graffiti really is technically a better solution.
But I wouldn’t use it for the same reason I don’t touch those X10 cameras - I hate their advertising vector. The moment you start name calling is the moment I start looking for the reason why. A strong argument (for example, an objective comparison, even if it is apples to oranges) doesn’t need the defense of a virtual-penis contest. That’s for weak arguments.
Plus, I avoid .net on general principles for now. Maybe in another year I’ll look at it again (via Mono) for future projects. In the meantime, PHP and JSP on Linux and Solaris are more than a match for my needs, and WP has only failed me once (and that’s where Joomla took over for that project).
January 4th, 2008 at 3:05 am
World wild web… What all things are happening here….
January 4th, 2008 at 4:03 am
[...] WordPress is compared once again to another CMS, Graffiti (landing page). WordPress is a blogging platform, but can also be used/considered a CMS. Ads were targeting current users of WordPress or people deciding to switch/start using it. [...]
January 4th, 2008 at 4:35 am
pretty ugly game, they should build their own brand instead off dishing the neighbors.
January 4th, 2008 at 7:24 am
[...] Graffitti disses WordPress — That’s not good. [Via Photo Matt] [...]
January 4th, 2008 at 7:44 am
Sounds to me like Ian is an employee of Graffiti
January 4th, 2008 at 8:16 am
While this is pretty lame marketing, it’s not really that big of a deal. In general, WordPress isn’t a CMS. However, it can easily be used as one - and my company uses it for a slew of sites without fail. Customized and easy to update.
Where Graffiti CMS will fail is community. I’ve noticed that when you pay for a CMS package, the open community of developers falls short. Not very many people will pay $200 for a CMS and then openly distribute things they’ve done to it. It feels like tossing an investment. That’s (IMO) one of the greatest and most powerful aspects of WordPress. It has a GREAT community.
The argument between .NET and PHP is kind of a personal opinion. Saying one is worse then the other is saying an apple is worse then a peach. Sure, I don’t like peaches, but they have their merit, as does .NET. You can do a lot of nice desktop applications to access the web and so on. Of course, I have my reservations do to the Microsoft handle … but that, again, is a personal opinion and nothing more.
All in all - this won’t hurt WordPress. In a way, it’s a branding and name recognition. There will be people who ask “Why is WordPress less than Graffiti?” and perhaps try, and love, WordPress. I know it worked (sorta) for me. Now I love, and promote, WordPress.
January 4th, 2008 at 8:19 am
Oh yes, and did you notice to do customizations you need to know their special programming language?
“Now we did realize that designers would want to customize how Graffiti looks. So we decided to introduce a neutral programming concept we call Chalk. Chalk is a simple templating language that gives both designers and developers the ability to customize how content is shown without requiring them to read a 500 lb. book on programming.”
They claim that you don’t need to know PHP to customize their system … but you do need to learn a completely separate language. Way to go.
January 4th, 2008 at 8:43 am
If there’s any question of Graffitti sullying the Wordpress name, I suppose Automattic could argue the toss over the use of the Wordpress name in marketing by Graffitti.
Automattic seem to be claiming ‘Wordpress’ as a trademark albeit without sprinkling little ‘tm’ signs all over the shop.
Of course, that’s not necessarily the ethical thing to do as Graffitti should be granted their freedom of speech - as are the Wordpress crowd in defending their good name.
The slightly ambiguous bumf about it is in the wordpress.com TOS (section
http://wordpress.com/tos/
January 4th, 2008 at 10:49 am
[...] community hating on Microsoft Matt Mullenweg, the creator of WordPress, linked to a blog post someone wrote up about a Google ad we ran for Graffiti CMS targeting WordPress. The gist of the ad “WordPress is [...]
January 4th, 2008 at 11:10 am
[...] Mullenweg, the creator of WordPress, linked to a blog post someone wrote up about a Google ad we ran for Graffiti CMS targeting WordPress. The gist of the ad [...]
January 4th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
So why is the claim that “Wordpress is not a CMS” a diss? Does WordPress claim to be a CMS? From the wordpress page:
More simply, WordPress is what you use when you want to work
with your blogging software, not fight it.
Seems to me WordPress is blogging software. CMS is more general. I mean, if I said “Wordpress is not a CRM” would that also be a dis?
January 4th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
@Hoodgrown_Magazine - that’s pretty funny! Nope, I don’t work for Telligent, or have any connection with them, I just happen to like their product.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Yea.. I’m messing with you Ian. Glad u have a sense of humor about it.
I would be tempted to at least try it if it ran on PHP and Mysql.
But I don’t really get into the Microsoft end of things.-
January 4th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Yeah, invest tons of cash into microsoft products and upgrades and pay for ours too…
or
Use the PROVEN software that is free for the rest of your life.
Easy decision. Unless you love giving money to greedy people.
January 5th, 2008 at 2:33 am
[...] Ok, so this guy here seems to disagree. WP’s a CMS? Read above, it’s not. [...]
January 5th, 2008 at 4:12 am
[...] “Graffiti CMS” (a commercial CMS which isn’t even available yet) is running ads dissing Wordpress. In addition to the ads Charles Stricklin has seen, I’ve noticed ads (on my own site, even) [...]
January 5th, 2008 at 7:55 am
What I find amusing is the suggestion that people might be “tired of wordpress”. The only time I get tired of wordpress is when I stay up late working with it.
I bet there are very few people who are tired of it.
January 5th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
I’ve been using WordPress for years now, can’t say that I’ve ever had the problems with it that I’ve had using other blog programs. It’s been constantly reliable and you know you’re not in this alone if you mess something up.. it says a lot if someone like me feels empowered enough to take a stab at experimenting with it. It’s the best program I’ve ever used and the community of users is great. I won’t use anything else.
January 5th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Charles, take a look at this article, then read the comment from the Product Manager of Graffiti and his post response to my post. Pretty interesting read….
http://www.philoking.com/2007/12/27/what-does-wordpress-have-in-common-with-microsoft-windows-marketshare/
I don’t they he gets it.
JB
January 5th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Isn’t comparing Graffiti and WordPress a bit like comparing apples and oranges? First off, WP is a blogging platform first and foremost. It has applications as a CMS, but that’s not it’s primary purpose. Graffiti, on the other hand, is marketed as a CMS. Second, WP and Graffiti run on completely different platforms. This makes their marketing strategy look utterly silly, as anyone who currently uses WP and gets sick of it would have to pay for a Windows web-hosting package *and* Graffiti itself. That leads me to the third comparison: WP is free and open source, Graffiti costs money and is proprietary. A true WordPress alternative would also be free and open source, and I can think of quite a few that already exist.
January 6th, 2008 at 12:59 am
wordpress is a good cms and i love wordpress, is a little proble with wordpress, if you have a lot of visitors the server will be down, so we need tu use WP-Super-Cache!
January 6th, 2008 at 4:29 am
Cody: Yes. In the terms I know from the “older brothers” of CMS applications (PHPNuke, etc.), WordPress doesn’t fit the feature range that would even make it *an incomplete CMS*.
January 6th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
[...] mud to promote their product even though it isn’t out of beta yet. I found the article here, I am not going to give them the satisfaction of linking to the original. Let’s take a walk [...]
January 6th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Ridiculous. That type of advertising never works on me, in fact, it does the opposite. Diss your competition and I lose all faith in your product.
Not to mention, I have to laugh that they are seeming to say that they’re better than WordPress simply because a WordPress install takes five minutes while theirs takes two minutes. Wow, three minutes saved…
January 6th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
WordPress = Blogging Software
Joomla = Content Management System
Sure, WP can be used as a CMS to a certain degree, just as say Joomla can be used as blogging software. The challenge is that neither one is truly designed for either role. Sure the Chevy El Camino was indeed a car and a truck, yet it didn’t work exceptionally well as either a car or a truck.
IF, and that is a big IF, Graffiti CMS have successfully created a blog+CMS hybrid, then that is a great achievement. I work with both blogs and CMS’ and frankly I would be seriously happy if I could blog like WordPress within Joomla. The reality is that I fully support their development simply because someone in the Open Source realm will decide they can do a better job and we start all over again.
As for the PHP vs. .Net argument, well really that is just a waste of typing. None of us truly care what it’s programmed in as long as it bloody well works, right? Sadly, most hosting packages are on shared *nix boxes due to their low cost. The software will have to be pretty damned impressive to a) get people to buy it, and b) get people to upgrade their hosting accounts (plus deal with some level of inevitable hassle) to support .Net.
As for attacking WordPress in your marketing? Please, everyone sees it for what it is and only reduces the credibility of the company doing it. Can’t your product stand on it’s own? Sad…
Cheers.
P.S. WP and Joomla used as examples simply because I feel they are the best in their respective categories (blog vs. CMS).
January 7th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Oh My Lord! What a joke.
I work for a company that develops in .NET and we (they) have even created a CMS that is catered to Hotels but works for any site and yet when it comes to building my own site or a new site I use wordpress. Why? Not because the product we make is crap but because wordpress just works so well. open source rules.
Just look for plugins for wordpress and you can see the variety of the open source love. Try looking for a plugin for a proprietary CMS.
January 7th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
[...] came across a post on Charles Stricklin’s blog about how the Graffitti content management system was knock…. Now I’m not really that partial to any technology, and I get a little freaked out when [...]
January 8th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
I came across this discussion while searching for a MSSQL/IIS alternative to WordPress. I love wordpress but unfortunately a new site we’re building is hosted on servers that don’t support PHP/MySQL. I’m searching the web for an alternative and ideally I’d like to find one that’s free like WordPress.
Can anyone suggest a good WordPress alternative that’s not Graffiti?
January 9th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
I see the price has now been halved to 99 USD but it will be 399 USD in february!!!!! I don’t think that price will last if it happens at all.
January 10th, 2008 at 1:17 am
[...] WordPress recently got criticized for being a “blogware, not a content management system (CMS).” [...]
January 10th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
[...] originally began this post in response to the following comment on Charles Stricklin’s blog: I’ve have only used WordPress for a few years, but have quite successfully bent it beyond [...]
January 12th, 2008 at 8:17 am
They are dissing the competition. It is what a lot of advertising does.
Their viral advertising seems to be working though. Just look at all the posts about the product. And as Oscar Wilde said “the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about“.
My only complaint is that their site seems a little slow. Maybe the advertising is working too well (for their setup) ?
January 13th, 2008 at 9:13 am
[...] Graffitti disses WordPress, their landing page boasts a 2-minute install. Seems pretty aggressive for a product that’s only available for pre-purchase (at $199). [...]
February 3rd, 2008 at 6:09 am
[...] Follow the posts and comments at Charles Stricklin’s blog for more on this nonsense: http://charlesstricklin.com/2008/01/03/graffitti-disses-wordpress/ [...]
March 1st, 2008 at 7:05 am
[...] bir elemanın belirttiğine göre Google içerisinde “WordPress” kelimesine reklam veriyor. Reklamın metni ise hayli ilginç: “WordPress CMS değildir.” (CMS: İçerik Yönetim [...]